ggpo VS bevy

As mentioned in the top comment, rollback and client side prediction is key. One of the more robust and popular libraries that do this specifically for fighting games is GGPO. When it was opened sourced a few years ago it was a fairly big deal as games that used it felt great. Larger studios have their own libraries but the concept is the same. Its worth a look through if you want to implement something on your own.

I just did a quick Google so I don't know the exact details, but I think Max said Idol Shodown is running GGPO which, as far as I can tell, is open source.

will reply here also in case anyone else wanted an answer. You could use the original C++ library with C++ or any language that interops with C++ (e.g. C#), so that's there for ya if you need

Sure thing bud. I guess we'll just keep pretending like Code Mystics, the same people that did the KI netcode, haven't partnered with SNK because SNK realized their shit sucks and they needed external assistance. We'll pretend like the source code for GGPO is hidden away in the recesses of Tony Cannon's mind or that it isn't open and free for anyone to use or that it doesn't have Japanese documentation. We'll pretend like MikeZ didn't implement a version of GGPO in Skullgirls in 2012.

GGPO is a common implementation and it's all open source if anyone wants to get into the nitty-gritty: https://github.com/pond3r/ggpo

Backroll-rs is a brand new networking library based on GGPO dedicated to peer-to-peer Rollback Netcode, for use in fighting games, platform fighters, and other games with less than 8 players that require low latency. We are looking for programmers familiar with Rust to help finish this project. We are 80% of the way completed with this project, but we need more unit tests and debugging to fully finish it.

This doesn't work in the comparison to shooters. Shooters operate through a server, while fighting games are peer-to-peer. They only require a server for matchmaking purposes. Doing the peer-to-peer part actually puts fighting game devs at an advantage compared to other genres, as there's libraries and documentation for those libraries to either plug and play a rollback solution or build one buy looking at existing source code complete with solid documentation.

GGPO doesn't really solve the biggest problem with SFV's netcode, which is client timesync. It does have code in there to handle it by slowing down the client that's ahead and allowing the client that's behind to catch up, but that doesn't fix the fact that one client consistently gets ahead in the first place, and also means the faster client will see more stuttering or slowdown.

I don't see WASM/WebGPU changing anything when it comes to gaming, as an industry, personally. 3d visualizations and interactive websites? Yeah definitely a nice improvement over WebGL 2, if years late.

WebGPU is pretty far behind what AAA games are using even as of 6 years ago. There's extra overhead and security in the WebGPU spec that AAA games do not want. Browsers do not lend themselves to downloading 300gb of assets.

Additionally, indie devs aren't using Steam for the technical capabilities. It's purely about marketshare. Video games are a highly saturated market. The users are all on Steam, getting their recommendations from Steam, and buying games in Steam sales. Hence all the indie developers publish to Steam. I don't see a web browser being appealing as a platform, because there's no way for developers to advertise to users.

That's also only indie games. AAA games use their own launchers, because they don't _need_ the discoverability from being on Steam. So they don't, and avoid the fees. If anything users _want_ the Steam monopoly, because they like the platform, and hate the walled garden launchers from AAA companies.

(I work on high end rendering features for the Bevy game engine https://bevyengine.org, and have extensive experience with WebGPU)

I was working through an example in the repo for the Bevy game engine recently and came across this code

That's possible. I did spend quite a bit of time tinkering with compiler flags, and followed the recommendations.

Some notes I found just now seems to agree with my results, though: https://github.com/bevyengine/bevy/issues/3978#issuecomment-...

I cannot recommend immediate mode GUI programming based on the limitations I've experienced working with egui.

egui does not support putting two widgets in the center of the screen: https://github.com/emilk/egui/issues/3211

It's really easy to get started with immediate mode, it's really easy to bust out some UI, but the second you start trying to involve dynamically resized context and responsive layouts -- abandon all hope. The fact it has to calculate everything in a single pass makes these things hard/impossible.

... that said, I'm still using it for https://ant.care/ (https://github.com/MeoMix/symbiants) because it's the best thing I've found. I'm crossing my fingers that Bevy's UI story (or Kayak https://github.com/StarArawn/kayak_ui) become significantly more fleshed out sooner rather than later. Bevy 0.13 should have lots more in this area though (https://github.com/bevyengine/bevy/discussions/9538)

I've also been enjoying building My First Game™ in Bevy using ECS. The community around Bevy really shines, but Flecs (https://github.com/SanderMertens/flecs) is arguably a more mature, open-source ECS implementation. You don't get to write in Rust, though, which makes it less cool in my book :)

I'm not very proud of the code I've written because I've found writing a game to be much more confusing than building websites + backends, but, as the author notes, it certainly feels more elegant than OOP or globals given the context.

I'm building for WASM and Bevy's parallelism isn't supported in that context (yet? https://github.com/bevyengine/bevy/issues/4078), so the performance wins are just so-so. Sharing a thread with UI rendering suuucks.

If anyone wants to browse some code or ask questions, feel free! https://github.com/MeoMix/symbiants

These days, some game engines have done pretty well at making compute shaders easy to use (such as Bevy [1] -- disclaimer, I contribute to that engine). But telling the scientific/financial/etc. community that they need to run their code inside a game engine to get a decent experience is a hard sell. It's not a great situation compared to how easy it is on NVIDIA's stack.

[1]: https://github.com/bevyengine/bevy/blob/main/examples/shader...

This is the API you need: https://github.com/bevyengine/bevy/pull/9774

Most of Nanite (at least, everything but the LOD system, I haven't tried that part, and the compute rasterizer due to lack of storage image atomics because Metal lacks them...) is implementable in WebGPU actually.

I have a PR that does a lot of the same things (meshlets, visbuffer, material depth, two pass occlusion culling) open for Bevy https://github.com/bevyengine/bevy/pull/10164 that I've been working on, which uses WebGPU.

WebGPU is actually a pretty good API imo. It's missing some advanced features like raytracing, mesh shaders, and subgroup operations (coming soon!), but it can still do a lot.

The much bigger missing feature is "bindless" support (non-uniform arrays of bound resources). BindGroup overhead (and ergonomics) is a significant downside.