gcc VS peps

> It's true, this was a CVE in Rust and not a CVE in C++, but only because C++ doesn't regard the issue as a problem at all. The problem definitely exists in C++, but it's not acknowledged as a problem, let alone fixed.

Can you find a link that substantiates your claim? You're throwing out some heavy accusations here that don't seem to match reality at all.

Case in point, this was fixed in both major C++ libraries:

https://github.com/gcc-mirror/gcc/commit/ebf6175464768983a2d...

https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/commit/4f67a909902d8ab9...

So what C++ community refused to regard this as an issue and refused to fix it? Where is your supporting evidence for your claims?

> Take for example CVE-2022-21658 (https://blog.rust-lang.org/2022/01/20/cve-2022-21658.html) in Rust, related to a filesystem API. It's true, this was a CVE in Rust and not a CVE in C++, but only because C++ doesn't regard the issue as a problem at all.

That just plain wrong. Just simply wrong. And I hope it is not a lie done on purpose.

The C++ community acknowledge the issue as soon as the Rust one posted the problem and issued a fix which is already deployed with major compilers [^1] [^2]

It does not have a CVE associated since the issue was spotted within Rust stdlib first.

This is this exact kind of FUD and zealotism that makes people hate the Rust community. I wish the community mature a bit on this aspect.

[^1]: https://github.com/gcc-mirror/gcc/commit/ebf6175464768983a2d...

[^2]: https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/commit/4f67a909902d8ab9...

Somewhat related: In 2020 gcc bumped the requirement for bootstrapping to be a C++11 compiler [0]. Would have been fun to see the kernel finally adopt C++14 as the author suggested.

I don't think that Linus will allow this since he just commented that he will allow rust in drivers and major subsystems [1].

I do found it pretty funny that even Linus is also not writing any rust code, but is reading rust code.

I would have hoped see more answers or see something in here from actual kernel developers.

0: https://github.com/gcc-mirror/gcc/commit/5329b59a2e13dabbe20...

> They’re saying that a lot of the restrictions makes things much harder than other languages. Hence the general problem rust has where a lot of trivial tasks in other languages are extremely challenging.

Like what? So far the discussion has revolved around rewriting a linked list, which people generally shouldn't ever need to do because it's included in the standard lib for most languages. And it's a decidedly nontrivial task to do as well as the standard lib when you don't sacrifice runtime overhead to be able to handwave object lifecycle management.

- C++: https://github.com/gcc-mirror/gcc/blob/master/libstdc%2B%2B-...

- Rust: https://doc.rust-lang.org/beta/src/alloc/collections/linked_...

> No need to get defensive, no one is arguing that rust doesn’t do a lot of things well.

That's literally what bsaul is arguing in another comment. :)

> You’re talking up getting a safe implementation in C, but what matters is “can I get the same level of safety with less complexity in any language”, and the answer is yes: Java and c# implementations of a thread safe linked list are trivial.

Less perceived complexity. In Java and C# you're delegating the responsibility of lifecycle management to garbage collectors. For small to medium scale web apps, the added complexity will be under the hood and you won't have to worry about it. For extreme use cases, the behavior and overhead of the garbage collector does became relevant.

If you factor in the code for the garbage collector that Java and C# depend on, the code complexity will tilt dramatically in favor of C++ or Rust.

However, it's going to be non-idiomatic to rewrite a garbage collector in Java or C# like it is to rewrite a linked list in Rust. If we consider the languages as they're actually used, rather than an academic scenario which mostly crops up when people expect the language to behave like C or Java, the comparison is a lot more favorable than you're framing it as.

> If I wanted I could do it in c++ though the complexity would be more than c# and Java it would be easier than rust.

You can certainly write a thread-safe linked list in C++, but then the enforcement of any assumptions you made about using it will be a manual burden on the user. This isn't just a design problem you can solve with more code - C++ is incapable of expressing the same restrictions as Rust, because doing so would break compatibility with C++ code and the language constructs needed to do so don't exist.

So it's somewhat apples and oranges here. Yes, you may have provided your team with a linked list, but it will either

GCC is also written in C++, and has had C++ deps since 2013:

https://github.com/gcc-mirror/gcc/blob/master/gcc/c/c-parser...

For a more detailed explanation, see [2]. (Also the inspiration for the above example,)

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitive_relation

[2] https://github.com/gcc-mirror/gcc/commit/50ddbd0282e06614b29...

This is why, when considering whether to build & release a nn.2.0 macOS version, I’ll only do so if there’s a good reason: for example, GCC 12.1.0 couldn’t compile C source on macOS Ventura (version 13).

after 1-6, should have a good idea of what type of documentation / coding standards / tools / levels of abstraction want to have/see for a projects source code/deliverable. :-)

[1] : http://github.com/Blackgu/ebooks/blob/master/ebooks/2012-2-1...

[2] : http://peps.python.org

[3] http://medium.com/codex/say-goodbye-to-loops-in-python-and-w...

Yet development is carried via consensus between developers and users, there are places where users come to discuss thinks and ask questsion, there are place where resolutions are described in a POSITA-understandable terms and so on.

Oh, I have a pretty fresh news for you.

https://github.com/python/peps/pull/2955

- PEP 568 – Generator-sensitivity for Context Variables

(and that's as far as I cared to look - unfortunately https://peps.python.org/ lists the authors by last name and there are multiple people named "Smith")

So it seems he has in fact "done much".

It's going to depend on which programming language you are examining, if that programming language is standardized, and how much of the development process is publicly available (open development process vs. proprietary languages with closed source development).

For Python, it looks like everything is on GitHub:

https://github.com/python/cpython

https://github.com/python/peps

It might take some exploring depending on what you are trying to find (over 100k commits in the git repo), but it looks like it is all there going back to Python 2.0 and earlier.

Bibliography: Guido Van Rossum.(n.d.).AZQuotes.com. Retrieved April 23, 2022, from AZQuotes.com Web site: https://www.azquotes.com/author/46455-Guido_van_Rossum Python(programming language) - Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org Python.Net Tutorial For beginners. Zen of Python: https://peps.python.org

If you ask "pythonic" look to PEP. But also I feel your forgetting about methods, the functions of objects/types. For example