gallery VS treenotation.org

I was pessimistic about flutter 4 years ago but rechecked it recently (learning right now) and IMO it's really good user/developer proposition these days. They resolved most of issues on mobile devices and desktops - only web version still off but once wasmGC is ready (hopefully this year) probably things will improve.

Best way for developer elevator pitch just download few flutter apps and see how you like the experience:

1. wonderous - https://flutter.gskinner.com/wonderous/

2. flutterflow (low code + gui editor for flutter) - https://https://flutterflow.io/

3. appflowy (notion alternative) - https://appflowy.io/

4. flutter gallery (official flutter kitchen sink) -

Android (Google Play Store, .apk) - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.flutter.dem...

web (gallery.flutter.dev) - https://gallery.flutter.dev/

macOS (.zip) - https://github.com/flutter/gallery/releases/latest

5. official material 3.0 demo - https://flutter.github.io/samples/web/material_3_demo/#/

I recommend to checkout and play with material 3.0 demo (just keep in mind this is web version will have even better when using native compiled version on mobile or desktop):

https://flutter.github.io/samples/web/material_3_demo/#/

4) Try web flutter gallery to see numerous app samples (more complex) and widgets

https://gallery.flutter.dev/#/

again even better to download mobile or desktop version that there is in app store:

play store: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.flutter.dem...

macos dmg (.zip): https://github.com/flutter/gallery/releases/latest

I tried both macos flutter gallery and on iOS and surpassingly is pretty good these days and smooth and feel native - even text selection works these days, moving cursor with long press on keyboard space etc. Occasionally was more difficult to dismiss keyboard on iOS and back/next mouse keys or touchpad gestures didn't work on macOS flutter gallery. But overall I'm quite satisfied and surprised comparing how it looked 4 years ago.

I remember the first time when I looked at the Flutter Gallery and was surprised at how things felt just broken in a web browser, for example: https://gallery.flutter.dev (I think it was the Reply example in particular)

Ctrl + click or middle mouse button didn't work on links, right click didn't work, selecting and copying text didn't work, inspect element didn't work (due to how the technology is built), even attempting to zoom the page did nothing.

This article does ring true both because of that experience, as well as some of the SPA implementations I've seen even with more conventional technologies.

Google Docs. Figma. Any Flutter app like https://gallery.flutter.dev/. Short answer, they're really not handling accessibility.

Even when you did that, scrolling was completely wrong. The web simply doesn’t expose primitives from which you can build native-feel scrolling, and the best you can manage on precise touchpads (that is, all laptops now) will normally feel terrible, and lack things like inertia which are rather important. https://gallery.flutter.dev/, for example, scrolls less than half as fast as it should, and lacks inertia. (… and renders text in the wrong font, and doesn’t do links at all where it obviously should, and uses scrollbars that behave all wrong quite apart from being overlay which my native aren’t, and get typing emoji wrong, and… and… seriously, it’s just a litany of awfulness.)

Oh wow. I had thought the claim that they were not producing any semantic web elements was almost certainly exaggerated. That said, for the number of things that are on https://gallery.flutter.dev/#/reply, there are a surprisingly low number of elements. Wow.

example: https://gallery.flutter.dev (and Flutter Gallery on the playstore)

You could just need to clear your cache, but I suspect might have something going on because of how you're loading your theme. Not sure about having two runapp functions. I would suggest inspecting gallery.flutter.dev and then implementing a splash screen the way they have, as you will get the benefit of having a slash while flutter is being loaded, vs a splash screen that won't start until after, which imho, defeats the purpose.

> concatenating them changes the label for [b] from "a" to "z\na", and perhaps more damningly, erases the whitespace before "z". But, since none of the alternative formats (except ndjson and I guess plain uninterpreted binary, ASCII, or Unicode) is closed under concatenation, maybe that's less important.

Yes, being closed under concatenation is a feature I was aiming for and it indeed does bring with it this issue.

Just something to have in mind when devising formats. A simple solution here is to disallow having anything other than whitespace in the suffix of a Jevko with > 0 children. Then, if a format converts these labels to keys in a map, trimming leading and trailing whitespace, there is no problem. This is how I did it here:

https://github.com/jevko/easyjevko.js

> I don't know if you saw the last time this topic came up I linked to https://ogdl.org/, which seems pretty close to a minimal rose-tree notation.

Yes, I've seen OGDL before. It's pretty nice. A similar one is https://treenotation.org/

I have experimented with indentation-based syntaxes myself, before settling on brackets.

I have found them to be problematic, at least because:

* For complex structures they become less compact.

* A grammar that correctly captures significant indentation can't really be written in pure BNF. The way OGDL does it is this:

  [12] space(n) ::= char_space*n ; where n is the equivalent number of spaces (can be 0)

This reminds me a bit of Breck Yunits' Tree Notation (https://treenotation.org/). Both seem to have a ~totalizing energy. Maybe some common cause. :)

Hi, I'm a programmer and I've used quite a few different languages in my career. I've never studied compilers or language design, however it has always interested me from afar. Also I've always had a strong preference for simple syntax, what sane person wouldn't? Anyway I've scanned over the https://treenotation.org/ site. I get the general gist, that this provides a tool to easily create languages that use tree notation. Unfortunately I still don't really understand how to use it. If there was tutorial that held your hand that would be really useful. I suspect there a large number of people like myself that would benefit from this. Perhaps at some point I'll role up my sleeves and do it myself, but I'm sure someone else could do a better job.

> The way to fix this trend would be to reimagine the presentation layer of the browser as something other than a stack of hacks over hypertext, but so far nobody seems to have a good solution.

About a decade ago I had the start of a Eureka moment on how to do this (back then — https://medium.com/space-net/spacenet-51aca95d49a2, nowadays https://treenotation.org/). It seems to me we've missed a sort of fundamental universal notation of the universe, which you can think of as "two-dimensional binary". I predict we will soon see a Cambrian Explosion of new formats and notations that are simpler and more interoperable with each other, and some will have the opportunity to build new great languages for rendering stacks.

Awesome app. Do you plan on using it for anything in particular? Or are you just creating it as a passion project. It's totally cool.

Learning about https://treenotation.org/ (linking this for other people, not for you, Breck :P), and I like what I see. My first impression was "Lisp, but with python indenting"

> We no longer need to store our data in error prone CSV, XML, or JSON. Tree Notation gives us a simpler, more powerful encoding for data with lots of new advanced features

This is the one thing I didn't understand! Tree notation seems equivalent to these. Like at a certain level, it's all just data. Now, the major benefit is that you're supposed to think differently about what you're doing when using tree notation. Would love to hear your opinion about this conjecture.

Lots of code examples here: https://jtree.treenotation.org/designer/

And the source for that homepage is here: https://github.com/treenotation/treenotation.org

Always open to PR!