dhall-kubernetes
dhall-lang
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dhall-kubernetes | dhall-lang | |
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9 | 113 | |
608 | 4,131 | |
0.3% | 0.5% | |
4.2 | 6.0 | |
4 months ago | about 2 months ago | |
Dhall | Dhall | |
Apache License 2.0 | BSD 3-clause "New" or "Revised" License |
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dhall-kubernetes
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DSLs Are a Waste of Time
I hate yaml with a passion. It marginally better than xml for reading (wins huge on comment syntax) and worse for everything else. It makes zero sense we somehow ended up with it as standard configuration serialization format.
Note yaml is not a DSL. It's a tree serialization format! Everything interesting is happening after it is parsed. Extreme examples point to e.g. github actions conditions.
Anyway, back on topic - maybe not prolog for CDK, but still quite interesting: Dhall-kubernetes - https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-kubernetes
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Why is Kubernetes adoption so hard?
At this point, if it’s painful enough, why isn’t compiling-to-yml tools more popular?
Example: https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-kubernetes
Haven’t used dhall myself but I’d definitely prefer a DSL on top of yaml.
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Nyarna: A structured data authoring language in the spirit of LaTeX, implemented in Zig
Dhall provides https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-kubernetes which is exactly this: statically type-checked kubernetes config generation.
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The Dhall Configuration Language
Dhall is my favorite configuration language that I never get around to using.
I manage DNS in Terraform, and since every Terraform provider uses different objects definitions, and every object definition is rather verbose, Dhall would be a way to specify my own DRY types and leave the provider-specific details in one place. Adding new DNS entries and moving several domains between providers would be a matter of changing fewer lines.
Dhall also has Kubernetes bindings:
https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-kubernetes
Although I'm tempted to just stick to Helm here, even though it's less type-safe.
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Why helm doesn't use a general purpose programming language for defining resources?
Not Helm directly, but does something like Dhall fit your question? https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-kubernetes
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Dhall configuration language as another way to write manifests for Kubernetes
Have you heard about Dhall? It’s a programming language used for generating configuration files for a variety of purposes. One of them is to replace old and limited formats such as JSON and YAML. It is DRYable, secure, and even suitable for creating K8s manifests. The latter option isn’t something for anyone: you have to learn a new language and deal with its peculiarities, but it might be really helpful when you have tons of YAML configs. I’ve recently made a short intro to Dhall for K8s in this review.
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Terraform 1.0 Release
Best thing is Dhall that I am aware of. Same situation, working as a consultant, forced to use broken things.
https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-kubernetes
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Write Gitlab CI Pipelines in Python Code
Lets look at a specific example. Take Kubernetes: everything is yaml, with complete schemas, all the way down. From your perspective this is configuration utopia, right? Meanwhile back in reality k8s is the poster child of "yaml hell". From the day it was released, people took one look at it, gave it a giant NOPE and instantly spawned half a dozen templating languages. The most popular of these is helm, which has a terrible, no good, very bad design: full of potential injection attacks from purely textual string substitution, manually specified indentation to embed parameterized blocks, virtually no intermediate validation, no way to validate unused features, etc etc
Compare to dhall which publishes a complete set of dhall-k8s schema mappings which enables you to factor out any design you want down to as few configuration variables as you like, while validating the configuration generators themselves at design time. https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-kubernetes#more-modular-...
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INTERCAL, YAML, And Other Horrible Programming Languages
The solution I like is Dhall. They even have a Kubernetes solution that will catch a lot of issues at compile-time, before you try to apply it to Kubernetes. At earthly we aren't actually using it though. Our Kubernetes guru found it to be a bit slow but I am hopeful it or something like it will be the future.
dhall-lang
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Apple releases Pkl – onfiguration as code language
Fail to see how this is any different than Dhall (https://dhall-lang.org/) other than it produces plists too.
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Pkl, a Programming Language for Configuration
Kubernetes config is a decent example. I had ChatGPT generate a representative silly example -- the content doesn't matter so much as the structure:
https://gist.github.com/cstrahan/528b00cd5c3a22e3d8f057bb1a7...
Now consider 100s (if not 1000s) of such files.
I haven't given Pkl an in depth look yet, but I can say that the Industry Standard™ of "simple YAML" + string substitution (with delicate, error prone indentation -- since YAML is indentation sensitive) is easily beat by any of:
- https://jsonnet.org/
- https://nickel-lang.org/
- https://nixos.org/manual/nix/stable/language/index.html
- https://dhall-lang.org/
- (insert many more here, probably including Pkl)
- Why the fuck are we templating YAML? (2019)
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Is Htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?
There are underpowered languages / tools, that can only solve a problem for which they are intended poorly. But not all limited tools are like that.
Say, eBPF is prominently not Turing-complete, which allows to guarantee that a eBPF program terminates, and even how soon. Still eBPF is hugely useful in its area.
Or, say, regular expressions are limited to regular languages; in particular, they famously [1] cannot process recursive structures, like trees. Still tools like grep / ag / rg are mightily useful.
Yes, I agree that YAML is underpowered for proper k8s configuration! But it's also too powerful for its own good in other aspects [2]. I wish Google used Dhall [3] or their own purely functional config language (FCL? I already forgot the name) instead of YAML; sadly, they did not.
[1]: https://stackoverflow.com/a/1732454/223424
[2]: https://ruudvanasseldonk.com/2023/01/11/the-yaml-document-fr...
[3]: https://dhall-lang.org/
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10 Ways for Kubernetes Declarative Configuration Management
Dhall: Dhall is a programmable configuration language that combines features like JSON, functions, types, and import capabilities. Its style leans towards functional programming, so if you're familiar with functional-style languages such as Haskell, you might find Dhall to be quite intuitive.
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Berry is a ultra-lightweight dynamically typed embedded scripting language
I've been thinking along these lines but more 'strongly validated' than statically typed in the sense that you'd be better off being able to load the entire config and then produce a list of problems (and should be able to offer good editor support if done correctly).
Though https://dhall-lang.org/ demonstrates that you can statically type quite a lot of configuration to great advantage, which appears to be programmatically embeddable in multiple languages per https://docs.dhall-lang.org/howtos/How-to-integrate-Dhall.ht...
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What Is the Point of Decidability
> Where practical is in the sense of an engineer (or in their terms, a CS practitioner),
Configuration processing. E.g. I'd like my yamls to be decidable, though I'd settle for guaranteed to halt[1].
[1] https://dhall-lang.org/
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What Is Wrong with TOML?
Maybe you'd like jsonnet: https://jsonnet.org/
I find it particularly useful for configurations that often have repeated boilerplate, like ansible playbooks or deploying a bunch of "similar-but" services to kubernetes (with https://tanka.dev).
Dhall is also quite interesting, with some tradeoffs: https://dhall-lang.org/
A few years ago I did a small comparison by re-implementing one of my simpler ansible playbooks: https://github.com/retzkek/ansible-dhall-jsonnet
- Show HN: FlakeHub – Discover and publish Nix flakes
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Home Blog Better configuration languages – A talk about Dhall [video]
And to checkout Dhall: https://dhall-lang.org/
What are some alternatives?
coc.nvim - Nodejs extension host for vim & neovim, load extensions like VSCode and host language servers.
cue - CUE has moved to https://github.com/cue-lang/cue
nvim-lspconfig - Quickstart configs for Nvim LSP
jsonnet - Jsonnet - The data templating language
starlark - Starlark Language
cue - The home of the CUE language! Validate and define text-based and dynamic configuration
NUKE - 🏗 The AKEless Build System for C#/.NET
terraform - Terraform enables you to safely and predictably create, change, and improve infrastructure. It is a source-available tool that codifies APIs into declarative configuration files that can be shared amongst team members, treated as code, edited, reviewed, and versioned.
vim-lsp - async language server protocol plugin for vim and neovim
jsonlogic - Go Lang implementation of JsonLogic
tanka - Flexible, reusable and concise configuration for Kubernetes
nix-gui - Use NixOS Without Coding