deno VS fresh

NodeJS is the dominant Javascript server runtime environment for Javascript and Typescript (sort of) projects. But over the years, we have seen several attempts to build alternative runtime environments such as Deno and Bun, today’s subject, among others.

https://github.com/denoland/deno/issues is the ideal place -- we try to triage all incoming issues, the more specific the repro the easier it is to address but we will take a look at everything that comes in.

Install Node.js (or Bun, or Deno, or whatever JS runtime you prefer) if it's not there

QUIC is very exciting, after seeing what it can do for performance in Cloudflare network and Cloudflare workers, I can't wait to finally see it in Deno[0] 1.41.

[0] https://github.com/denoland/deno/pull/21942#issuecomment-192...

So as an end user it's kind of like https://deno.com/ where you buy into a runtime + comes prepacked with DBs (k/v stores), scheduling, and deploy stuff?

> by storing Unison code in a database, keyed by the hash of that code, we gain a perfect incremental compilation cache which is shared among all developers of a project. This is an absolutely WILD feature, but it's fantastic and hard to go back once you've experienced it. I am basically never waiting around for my code to compile - once code has been parsed and typechecked once, by anyone, it's not touched again until it's changed.

Interesting. Whats it like upgrading and managing dependencies in that code? I'd assume it gets more complex when it's not just the Union system but 3rd party plugins (stuff interacting with the OS or other libs).

~90MB+ at this stage and do now allow compression without erroring out. Deploying ala Golang is not feasible at that level but could well be down the line if this dev branch is picked up again!

The exe output grew from from ~50MB to plus ~90MB from 2021 to 2024: https://github.com/denoland/deno/discussions/9811 which mean Deno is worse than Node.js's pkg solution by a decent margin.

Behind the scenes is a simple Sveltekit-powered server function to fetch a Spotify client token then find a user's recommendation playlist and its track information. A Deno edge function to performs this data fetch and renders server-side Svelte.

If your application is written in JavaScript, integrating it with JavaScript extensions is a no-brainer. However, Secutils.dev is entirely written in Rust. How would I even begin? Fortunately, I recently came across an excellent blog post series explaining how to implement your JavaScript runtime in a Rust application with Deno:

Deno: Deno with one of it's frameworks (like Fresh

The road to Fresh 2.0 (https://github.com/denoland/fresh/issues/2363) by Marvin Hagemeister Can't wait for seeing the end of the road! All in all great changes ahead.

Because I have secret magical powers that you probably don't, it's basically free for me. Here's the breakdown though:

The application server uses Deno and Fresh (https://fresh.deno.dev) and requires a shared-1x CPU at 512 MB of ram. That's $3.19 per month as-is. It also uses 2GB of disk volume, which would cost $0.30 per month.

As far as post generation goes: when I first set it up it used GPT-3.5 Turbo to generate prose. That cost me rounding error per month (maybe like $0.05?). At some point I upgraded it to GPT-4 Turbo for free-because-I-got-OpenAI-credits-on-the-drama-day reasons. The prose level increase wasn't significant.

With the GPU it has now, a cold load of the model and prose generation run takes about 1.5 minutes. If I didn't have reasons to keep that machine pinned to a GPU (involving other ridiculous ventures), it would probably cost about 5 minutes per day (increased the time to make the math easier) of GPU time with a 40 GB volume (I now use Nous Hermes Mixtral at Q5_K_M precision, so about 32 GB of weights), so something like $6 per month for the volume and 2.5 hours of GPU time, or about $6.25 per month on an L40s.

In total it's probably something like $15.75 per month. That's a fair bit on paper, but I have certain arrangements that make it significantly less cheap for me. I could re-architect Arsène to not have to be online 24/7, but it's frankly not worth it when the big cost is the GPU time and weights volume. I don't know of a way to make that better without sacrificing model quality more than I have to.

For a shitpost though, I think it'd totally worth it to pay that much. It's kinda hilarious and I feel like it makes for a decent display of how bad things could get if we go full "AI replaces writers" like some people seem to want for some reason I can't even begin to understand.

I still think it's funny that I have to explicitly tell people to not take financial advice from it, because if I didn't then they will.

Deno has also created a Next.js competitor, Fresh. I found it a few weeks ago and am starting to go through the docs, looks like a good overall concept. https://fresh.deno.dev/

https://fresh.deno.dev/ - Fresh embraces the tried and true design of server side rendering and progressive enhancement on the client side.

Along the way, I not only got the oppurtunity to revise old concepts that had blurred in my memory, but also learnt about new technologies like Fresh.js, a framework from Deno (a js runtime engine) that uses Preact, a React Routing library and used Chakra UI for the first time.

A whole project might be released as a server or framework. Frameworks like fresh, and astro) both have had things deep within them that I've wanted to reuse, within fresh it's the esbuild configuration, and islands functionality, and within astro it's the rendering of astro files themselves.

The Fresh framework by Deno cited an improved developer experience due to tighter feedback loops.