clog
babashka
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clog | babashka | |
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150 | 112 | |
1,382 | 3,782 | |
- | 1.8% | |
9.2 | 9.2 | |
3 days ago | 7 days ago | |
Common Lisp | Clojure | |
GNU General Public License v3.0 or later | Eclipse Public License 1.0 |
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clog
- Embracing Common Lisp in the Modern World
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Use any web browser as GUI, with Zig in the back end and HTML5 in the front end
Reminds me of the approach of CLOG (Common Lisp Omnificent Gui[1]) and its ancestor GNOGA (The GNU Omnificent GUI for Ada[2]).
They also integrate basic components and even graphical UI editor (at least for CLOG), so you can essentially develop the whole thing from inside CL or Ada
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Common Lisp: An Interactive Approach (1992) [pdf]
For me David Botton [0] with his work including code, support and videos is doing very nice work in this direction.
I use SBCL for everything but work because I cannot get; we are getting there, but like you say, it’s such a nice experience working interactively building fast that it is magic and it’s painful returning to my daily work of Python and typescript/react. It feels like a waste of time/life, really.
- Clog – The Common Lisp Omnificent GUI
- Tkinter Designer: Quickly Turn Figma Design to Python Tkinter GUI
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Want to learn lisp?
If you already have some programming experience you can do a quick intro to Common Lisp and CLOG too - https://github.com/rabbibotton/clog/blob/main/LEARN.md
I was following along on the Windows page and didn't check back on the main README to see if any of the other instructions would help.
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All Web frontend lisp projects
CLOG is an interesting twist of a frontend and backend in one. https://github.com/rabbibotton/clog
It the answer is "latter", then you could look at Common Lisp and Reblocks (https://40ants.com/reblocks/) or CLOG (https://github.com/rabbibotton/clog).
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How to Understand and Use Common Lisp
I haven't used Clojure professionally in 10 years so with a grain of salt here are my thoughts as only one other person answered...
CL over Clojure: it's the OG Lisp that the creator of Clojure used and wanted to continue using but faced too much resistance from management afraid of anything not-Java/not-Oracle, or not-CLR/not-Microsoft, etc. Clojure shipped originally as "just another jar" so devs could "sneak" it in. If you don't have such a management restriction, why Clojure? If you want to integrate CL with the JVM, you can use the ABCL implementation, there's also something from one of the proprietary Lisps. Some useful CL features that are nice in this domain: conditions and restarts mentioned in a sibling comment (very nice to help interactively develop/debug e.g. a selenium webdriver test), ability to easily compile an exe (perhaps useful for microservices, or just to keep your deployment environment clean and not having to care about Lisp), and ability to easily ship with an open local socket allowing you to SSH in (or SSH port forward) and debug/fix/poke around in production (JVM of course lets you attach debuggers to a running process, even certain billion+ dollar companies will have supervised/limited prod debugging sessions for various hairy cases, but it's not as interactive). You should never hear CL advocates claim you can't scale to large teams/groups of engineers or large multi-million-lines sized projects, though you might oddly hear Clojure advocates sometimes claim you can't (and shouldn't) scale to such large projects -- large groups of engineers are a non-issue for them as well though, the challenge is in hiring, not in the language somehow making it impossible to modularize and keep people from stepping on each other.
Clojure over CL: its integration with the JVM is nicer than ABCL's, so if you do actually want a lot of the great world of Java stuff, it's easier to get at. Database integration libraries are better. Access to libs (Clojure or Java) is via Maven, so it's a larger ecosystem with more self-integrating components (especially around monitoring/metrics) than what's available for Lisp via Quicklisp. Clojure is very opinionated, much of it quite tasteful, and that gives the whole ecosystem a certain consistency. (You can have immutable data structures in CL, you can if you want use [] for literal vectors and make them syntactically important e.g. in let bindings, but not everyone will be on board.) Even though its popularity seems to have stopped growing, at least at the same rate as e.g. Go which it was keeping pace with for a while, it's still popular enough with a bigger community; as a proxy measure there are multiple conferences around the world and good talks at adjacent conferences, whereas Lisp mostly just has one conference in Europe per year and only occasional branching outside of that.
If you're doing a client-side-heavy webapp, ClojureScript is still amazing, CL's answers there aren't very compelling with the exception of CLOG (https://github.com/rabbibotton/clog) which takes an entirely different direction than the usual idea of translating/running Lisp on top of JavaScript and its popular frameworks.
babashka
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A Tour of Lisps
It also gives you access to Babashka if you want Clojure for other use-cases where start-up time is an issue
- Babashka: Fast native Clojure scripting runtime
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What's the value proposition of meta circular interpreters?
I've tried researching this myself and can't find too much. There's this project metaes which is an mci for JS, and there's the SCI module of the Clojure babashka project, but that's about it. I also saw Triska's video on mci but it was pretty theoretical.
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Adding Dependencies on Clojure Project the Node Way: A Small Intro to neil CLI
Created by the same guy who created babashka which is a way to write bash scripts, node scripts, and even apple scripts using Clojure. A very proficient and influential developer in the Clojure community. This is how borkduke's neil helps us:
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Pure Bash Bible
Not what you asked for but there is Babashka for scripting in Clojure.
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Critique of Lazy Sequences in Clojure
Clojure's lazy sequences by default are wonderful ergonomically, but it provides many ways to use strict evaluation if you want to. They aren't really a hassle either. I've been doing Clojure for the last few years and have a few grievances, but overall it's the most coherent, well thought out language I've used and I can't recommend it enough.
There is the issue of startup time with the JVM, but you can also do AOT compilation now so that really isn't a problem. Here are some other cool projects to look at if you're interested:
Malli: https://github.com/metosin/malli
Babashka: https://github.com/babashka/babashka
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Sharpscript: Lisp for Scripting
Being a Clojure addict, I guess I have to leave the obligatory link to Babashka too then: https://github.com/babashka/babashka (Native, fast starting Clojure interpreter for scripting)
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Rash – The Reckless Racket Shell
which is now on hiatus. babashka: https://babashka.org
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babashka not working - Fatal error: Failed to create the main Isolate. (code 8)
I just got Asahi installed and I want to start automating my system setup, which I do using babashka
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Getting started with lisp
Babashka https://github.com/babashka/babashka - a native implementation of Clojure which starts fast
What are some alternatives?
janet - A dynamic language and bytecode vm
malli - High-performance data-driven data specification library for Clojure/Script.
joker - Small Clojure interpreter, linter and formatter.
nbb - Scripting in Clojure on Node.js using SCI
clojure-lsp - Clojure & ClojureScript Language Server (LSP) implementation
racket - The Racket repository
ShellCheck - ShellCheck, a static analysis tool for shell scripts
ArcadiaGodot
hy - A dialect of Lisp that's embedded in Python
Carp - A statically typed lisp, without a GC, for real-time applications.
immer - Postmodern immutable and persistent data structures for C++ — value semantics at scale
paip-lisp - Lisp code for the textbook "Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming"