awesome-lisp-companies VS pgloader

Everyone, if you don't have a clue on how's Common Lisp going these days, I suggest:

https://lisp-journey.gitlab.io/blog/these-years-in-common-li... (https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/107oejk/these_years_i...)

A curated list of libraries: https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl

Some companies, the ones we hear about: https://github.com/azzamsa/awesome-lisp-companies/

and oh, some more editors besides Emacs or Vim: https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/editor-support.ht... (Atom/Pulsar support is good, VSCode support less so, Jetbrains one getting good, Lem is a modern Emacsy built in CL, Jupyter notebooks, cl-repl for a terminal REPL, etc)

yet no other language gives so many tools to the developer… quantum companies would disagree. https://github.com/azzamsa/awesome-lisp-companies/

(BTW: CL isn't Smalltalk which isn't uniquely that anymore, we do use source files and we can compile single-file binaries. My web app weights 35MB, starts up in 0.4s (or 0.01s without core compression))

Examples (for Common Lisp, so not citing Emacs): reddit v1, Google's ITA Software that powers airfare search engines (Kayak, Orbitz…), Postgres' pgloader (http://pgloader.io/), which was re-written from Python to Common Lisp, Opus Modus for music composition, the Maxima CAS, PTC 3D designer CAD software (used by big brands worldwide), Grammarly, Mirai, the 3D editor that designed Gollum's face, the ScoreCloud app that lets you whistle or play an instrument and get the music score,

but also the ACL2 theorem prover, used in the industry since the 90s, NASA's PVS provers and SPIKE scheduler used for Hubble and JWT, many companies in Quantum Computing, companies like SISCOG, who plans the transportation systems of european metropolis' underground since the 80s, Ravenpack who's into big-data analysis for financial services (they might be hiring), Keepit (https://www.keepit.com/), Pocket Change (Japan, https://www.pocket-change.jp/en/), the new Feetr in trading (https://feetr.io/, you can search HN), Airbus, Alstom, Planisware (https://planisware.com),

or also the open-source screenshotbot (https://screenshotbot.io), the Kandria game (https://kandria.com/),

and the companies in https://github.com/azzamsa/awesome-lisp-companies and on LispWorks and Allegro's Success Stories.

https://github.com/tamurashingo/reddit1.0/

http://opusmodus.com/

https://www.ptc.com/en/products/cad/3d-design

http://www.izware.com/mirai

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/scorecloud-express/id566535238

Haven't had a lisp job, so maybe I shouldn't comment, but... I did use CL and Clojure on the job for a few things at my last two places. It's easier to find Clojure companies (and them to find you) than Common Lisp ones. You might want to peruse https://github.com/azzamsa/awesome-lisp-companies from time to time and see if any have openings. There's other resources linked too and of course there's the reddit and discord community (such as there is) hubs. You can also see if there are any meetups in your area, that's how I almost ended up at a Clojure startup some years back.

I should have taken strategy notes after talking to a guy at my last job who got management buy-in to rewrite a lot of Java code (for android) to Kotlin and have all new code for android be in Kotlin (before that was considered the sensible default). I think that's in general a better approach for a lot of would-be paid lispers: don't wait for or look for the lisp job, make the lisp job. Whether that's doing work where the customer doesn't care what language the thing is made in, or introducing it (some have even snuck it in -- the original clojure.jar got a lot of early success that way) to an existing work place. What I somewhat remember from my conversation was that if you can make a good technical case and have at least one other person supporting you (ideally your entire dev team as was his case), it's a lot easier to sell. No one raised bogus concerns about increasing the hiring difficulty or effort learning the new system. (I say bogus because engineers are learning all the time, and huge swathes of the industry have already had to do things like migrate from ObjC to Swift, or the various versions of JavaScript and later TypeScript + all the framework churn, switching IDEs; learning and change are quite common and a non-issue.) From other Lisp company reports, getting a new hire up to speed to be productive with the team using Common Lisp is a matter of a week or two, a small portion of the overall onboarding time a lot of new jobs have. Mastery takes longer, of course, but that's different.

If I had stayed longer at my last job I would have continued to flesh out a better demo for interactive selenium webdriver tests for our main Java application after injecting ABCL into it, it seemed like the easiest vector to get more interest from my team and other teams. It kind of sucks when you're debugging a broken test and finally hit an exception but now you have to start over again (especially if you stepped too far in the debugger), especially with heavy webdriver tests that can take a long time. The Lisp debugging experience is so much better... And when writing the test from scratch, it's very interactive, you type code and execute it and verify the browser did what you intended. When you're done you run it again from scratch to verify.

> but there doesn't seem to be one that really stands out as pragmatic, industrial

disagree ;) This industrial language is Common Lisp.

Some industrial uses:

- http://www.lispworks.com/success-stories/index.html

- https://github.com/azzamsa/awesome-lisp-companies/

- https://lisp-lang.org/success/

Example companies: Intel's programmable chips, the ACL2 theorem prover (https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsta.2015.039...), urban transportation planning systems (SISCOG), Quantum Computing (HRL Labs, Rigetti…), big data financial analysis (Ravenpack, they might be hiring), Google, Boeing, the NASA, etc.

ps: Python competing? strong disagree^^

Hey there, newer member of the first group here. Please see https://github.com/azzamsa/awesome-lisp-companies/ to update your meta-comment. So, is CL used in the industry today, yes or no?

Personal note: I much prefer to maintain a long-living software in Common Lisp rather than in Python, thank you very much. May all the new programmers learn easily and all the teams have lots of ~~burden~~ work with Python, good for them.

Common Lisp has many industrial uses though.

(https://github.com/azzamsa/awesome-lisp-companies/

https://lisp-lang.org/success/

http://www.lispworks.com/success-stories/index.html

such as

https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/moore/acl2/ (theorem prover used by big corp©)

https://allegrograph.com/press_room/barefoot-networks-uses-f... (Intel programmable chip)

quantum compilers https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32741928

etc, etc, etc)

A few more that we know of, using CL today: https://github.com/azzamsa/awesome-lisp-companies/

Others: https://lisp-lang.org/success/

yes

https://github.com/azzamsa/awesome-lisp-companies

http://lisp-lang.org/success/

industrial theorem prover, design of Intel chips, quantum compilers...

and little me, being more productive and having more fun than with python to deploy boring tools (read a DB, format the data, send to FTP servers, show a web interface...).

No, it's difficult to read, and understand. It's a parenthesis circus, example -

https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/blob/master/src/sources/...

Examples (for Common Lisp, so not citing Emacs): reddit v1, Google's ITA Software that powers airfare search engines (Kayak, Orbitz…), Postgres' pgloader (http://pgloader.io/), which was re-written from Python to Common Lisp, Opus Modus for music composition, the Maxima CAS, PTC 3D designer CAD software (used by big brands worldwide), Grammarly, Mirai, the 3D editor that designed Gollum's face, the ScoreCloud app that lets you whistle or play an instrument and get the music score,

but also the ACL2 theorem prover, used in the industry since the 90s, NASA's PVS provers and SPIKE scheduler used for Hubble and JWT, many companies in Quantum Computing, companies like SISCOG, who plans the transportation systems of european metropolis' underground since the 80s, Ravenpack who's into big-data analysis for financial services (they might be hiring), Keepit (https://www.keepit.com/), Pocket Change (Japan, https://www.pocket-change.jp/en/), the new Feetr in trading (https://feetr.io/, you can search HN), Airbus, Alstom, Planisware (https://planisware.com),

or also the open-source screenshotbot (https://screenshotbot.io), the Kandria game (https://kandria.com/),

and the companies in https://github.com/azzamsa/awesome-lisp-companies and on LispWorks and Allegro's Success Stories.

https://github.com/tamurashingo/reddit1.0/

http://opusmodus.com/

https://www.ptc.com/en/products/cad/3d-design

http://www.izware.com/mirai

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/scorecloud-express/id566535238

Initially, I started down the pgloader path, which seemed to be a common approach for the database conversion. However, using my M1-chip MacBook Pro led to some unexpected issues. Instead, I opted to use NMIG to convert MySQL to PostgreSQL. For more information, please check out the “Highlights From the Database Conversion” section below.

But do what makes you happy. The best PostgreSQL data loader in the world is written in Common Lisp. Now, CL is a fast and ANSI standardized language with multiple implementations, and was used to create Reddit, but it's hard to call it fashionable.

- [ScoreCloud](https://scorecloud.com/) - A web and mobile application to automatically create music notation from music performance or recordings. Built with LispWorks.

## DB tools

- [Pgloader](https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/) - Migrate to PostgreSQL in a single command!. [PostgreSQL License]

I would warmly recommend https://pgloader.io but, unfortunately, the Oracle support is still in need of a sponsor :-)

By the way, if anything SQLite can be easily migrated to PostgreSQl using pgloader.

If you work with postgres, use pgloader.