Nuitka VS dh-virtualenv

Thanks for the feedback! I'm Syrus, main author of the work on py2wasm.

We already opened a PR into Nuitka to bring the relevant changes upstream: https://github.com/Nuitka/Nuitka/pull/2814

We envision py2wasm being a thin layer on top of Nuitka, as also commented in the article.

From what we gathered, we believe that there's usefulness on having py2wasm as a separate package, as py2wasm would also need to ship the precompiled Python distribution (3.11) for WASI (which will not be needed for the other Nuitka use cases), apart of also shipping other tools that are not directly relevant for Nuitka

This is a good place to mention https://nuitka.net/ which aims to compile python programs into standalone binaries.

For Python, you could make a proper deployment binary using Nuitka (in standalone mode – avoid onefile mode for this). I'm not pretending it's as easy as building a Go executable: you may have to do some manual hacking for more unusual unusual packages, and I don't think you can cross compile. I think a key element you're getting at is that Go executables have very few dependencies on OS packages, but with Python (once you've sorted the actual Python dependencies) you only need the packages used for manylinux [2], which is not too onerous.

[1] https://nuitka.net/

[2] https://peps.python.org/pep-0599/#the-manylinux2014-policy

glee is rich in blogging features but has some drawbacks. One of the main drawbacks is its compatibility with multiple operating systems and system architectures. We lost one potential customer due to glee incompatibility in macOS. Another major issue is the deployment time. We built the first version of glee entirely in Python and used nuitka, nuitka compiles Python programs into a single executable binary file. We need to create three separate stages for creating executable binaries for Windows, Mac, and Linux in deployment, and it takes around 20 minutes to complete.

There is already an AOT compiler for Python: Nuitka[0]. But I don't think it's much faster.

And then there is mypyc[1] which uses mypy's static type annotations but is only slightly faster.

And various other compilers like Numba and Cython that work with specialized dialects of Python to achieve better results, but then it's not quite Python anymore.

[0] https://nuitka.net/

[1] https://github.com/python/mypy/tree/master/mypyc

Nuitka deals pretty well with those in general: https://nuitka.net/

Hi HN,

Has anyone explored Nuitka [1] and developed understanding from a blank slate?

Is there any toy version of this, so that one can start playing with the language translation concepts?

Is there any underlying theory/inspiration upon which this project is built?

Are there any similar projects, in say other languages?

[1] https://github.com/Nuitka/Nuitka

That's more of cultural problem in the Python community.

If I provide an end user software to my client written an Python (so not a backend, not a lib...), I will compile it with nuitka (https://github.com/Nuitka/Nuitka) and hide the stack trace (https://www.bitecode.dev/p/why-and-how-to-hide-the-python-st...) to provide a stand alone executable.

This means the users don't have to know it's made with Python or install anything, and it just works.

However, Python is not like Go or Rust, and providing such an installer requires more than work, so a huge part of the user base (which have a lot of non professional coders) don't have the skill, time or resources to do it.

And few people make the promotion of it.

I should write an article on that because really, nobody wants to setup python just to use a tool.

As for a simpler option, you could use a "compiler": https://github.com/Nuitka/Nuitka

This is how Azure package functions, iirc. I think I used this https://github.com/spotify/dh-virtualenv for similar purpose some time ago.

I'm in a devops role where we actually reroll the Tensorflow whl in-house (to get a few tweaks like specific AVX flags turned on), but because the rest of our deployment is apt/debs, we then turn around and wrap that whl in a deb using Spotify's excellent dh-virtualenv:

https://github.com/spotify/dh-virtualenv

There's no expertise for Bazel in-house; when we run the build, it seems to fail all its cache hits and then spend 12-13h in total compiling, much of which appears to be recompiling a specific version of LLVM.

Every dependency is either vendored or pinned, including some critical things that have no ABI guarantees like Eigen, which is literally pinned to some a random commit, so that causes chaos when other binaries try to link up with the underlying Tensorflow shared objects:

https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow/blob/master/third_p...

And when you go down a layer into CUDA, there are even more support matrixes listing exact known sets of versions of things that work together:

https://docs.nvidia.com/deeplearning/tensorrt/support-matrix...

Anyway, I'm mostly just venting here. But the whole thing is an absurd nightmare. I have no idea how a normal distro would even begin to approach the task of unvendoring this stuff and shipping a set of normal packages for it all.

Rarely do I develop software at my host level, I'm almost always doing it inside of a container or a virtual machine (local or remote), and part of that is simple muscle memory to solve several problems that you've mentioned in your experience with Python, as well as other languages (bonus points for me that I was never plagued by a horrid npm bug). Those are problems that are easily solvable with Docker and a properly formatted requirements.txt (which should only be used in development — use pip/setup.py for proper deployment) and for the rare times when I do need to use Python at the host level of a Linux system, I use Spotify's dh-virtualenv.

Maybe I misunderstood the question, but this would be the point of CI/CD and containerization as far as industry standards are concerned. If you had to deploy at host level, then this would be the point of dh-virtualenv that’s tied in by your CI/CD system.