ATS-Postiats
ponyc
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ATS-Postiats | ponyc | |
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18 | 61 | |
349 | 5,598 | |
- | 0.6% | |
0.0 | 9.3 | |
about 1 year ago | 8 days ago | |
ATS | C | |
GNU General Public License v3.0 or later | BSD 2-clause "Simplified" License |
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ATS-Postiats
- What is the most feature-rich programming language
- Evolutie limbaje in industrie
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The Little Typer – The Beauty of Dependent Type Systems, One Step at a Time
This is one of my two favorite books in The Little ...er series. The other is The Rational Schemer. These are two of the most advanced books in the series.
The Little Typer provides an introduction to dependent types. These can by used to guarantee things like "applying 'concat' to a list of length X and list of length Y returns a list of X+Y". It is also possible, to some extent, to use dependent types to replace proof tools like Coq. Two interesting languages using dependent types are:
- Idris. This is basically "strict Haskell plus dependent types": https://www.idris-lang.org/)
- ATS. This is a complex systems-level language with dependent types: http://www.ats-lang.org/
The Rational Schemer shows how to build a Prolog-like logic language as a Scheme library. This is a very good introduction to logic programming and the implementation of backtracking and unification is fascinating.
This is an excellent series overall, but these two books are especially good for people who are interested in unusual programming language designs. I don't expect dependent types or logic programming to become widely-used in the next couple generations of mainstream languages, but they're still fascinating.
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Does Rust have any design mistakes?
Not being ATS
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The case against an alternative to C
> any safety checks put into the competing language will have a runtime cost, which often is unacceptable
This is completely wrong. The best counterexample is probably ATS http://www.ats-lang.org which is compatible with C, yet also features dependent types (allowing us to prove arbitrary statements about our programs, and check them at compile time) and linear type (allowing us to precisely track resource usage; similar to Rust)
A good example is http://ats-lang.sourceforge.net/DOCUMENT/ATS2CAIRO/HTML/c36.... which uses the Cairo graphics library, and ends with the following:
> It may seem that using cairo functions in ATS is nearly identical to using them in C (modulo syntatical difference). However, what happens at the level of typechecking in ATS is far more sophisticated than in C. In particular, linear types are assigned to cairo objects (such as contexts, surfaces, patterns, font faces, etc.) in ATS to allow them to be tracked statically, that is, at compile-time, preventing potential mismanagement of such objects. For instance, if the following line:
val () = cairo_surface_destroy (sf) // a type error if omitted
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Security advisory: malicious crate rustdecimal | Rust Blog
For a low level language in which you actually need to prove that your code doesn't cause UB, see http://www.ats-lang.org/
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Why is ATS not considered in the design of modern system languages?
Here's the homepage fo the language: http://www.ats-lang.org/. The trick to finding results about with google is to search "ATS programming language".
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ESPOL, NEWP, Mesa, Cedar, Modula-2, Modula-2+, Modula-3, Oberon, Oberon-2, Component Pascal, Active Oberon, D, C#, F#, VB, Ada, Go, Swift, just a few examples.
In SPARK's case, you have to state your invariants in even greater precision than in Rust, and naturally it has worse inference. That's okay, the same happens in a certain language with Atrocious Type Syntax.
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What are all the situations you can't do compile time type-checking when building a programming language?
Yes, things like mentioned in the post can be expressed and checked statically, as demonstrated by languages like Idris and ATS. ATS might be even more relevant as it's an imperative language too, it can get rather low-level (like talking about properties of C runtime functions) while proving required properties statically, and it includes a solver for certain amount of arithmetics so that you don't need to prove obvious mathematical identities to the compiler. http://www.ats-lang.org/
- Is it possible to make a functional programming language that is equivalent of Rust in terms of performance and resource efficiency?
ponyc
- Old Version
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The problem with general purpose programming languages
For example, the actor's model is not used by a lot of languages, Pony (https://www.ponylang.io/) and Elixir are the only ones that I know, but they address the concurrency problem quite well, while it's a pain to deal with in other languages at large scale.
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Found a language in development called Vale which claims to be the safest AOT compiled language in the World (Claims to beSafer than Rust)
And that last point is critical. If the language flatly can't represent some concepts it uses, they have to be implemented somewhere else. I had a similar discussion with a proponent for Pony once- the language itself is 100% safe, and fully dependent on C for its runtime and data structures. One of Rust's core strengths is being able to express unsafe concepts, meaning the unsafe code can expose a safe interface that accurately describes its requirements rather than an opaque C ABI. Vale doesn't seem to do that.
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The Rust I wanted had no future
"Exterior iteration. Iteration used to be by stack / non-escaping coroutines, which we also called "interior" iteration, as opposed to "exterior" iteration by pointer-like things that live in variables you advance. Such coroutines are now finally supported by LLVM (they weren't at the time) and are actually a fairly old and reliable mechanism for a linking-friendly, not-having-to-inline-tons-of-library-code abstraction for iteration. They're in, like, BLISS and Modula-2 and such. Really normal thing to have, early Rust had them, and they got ripped out for a bunch of reasons that, again, mostly just form "an argument I lost" rather than anything I disagree with today. I wish Rust still had them. Maybe someday it will!"
I remember that one. The change was shortly after I started fooling with Rust and was major. Major as in it broke all the code that I'd written to that point.
"Async/await. I wanted a standard green-thread runtime with growable stacks -- essentially just "coroutines that escape, when you need them too"."
I remember that one, too; it was one of the things that drew me to the language---I was imagining something more like Pony (https://www.ponylang.io/).
"The Rust I Wanted probably had no future, or at least not one anywhere near as good as The Rust We Got."
Almost certainly true. But The Rust We Got is A Better C++, which was never appealing to me because I never liked C++ anyway.
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How long until Rust becomes mandatory, and use of any other language opens the developer up to Reckless Endangerment charges
Pony or bust.
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Universal parameter passing semantics
If you have a value in mutable storage, and want to treat it as an immutable parameter without copying it first, you will need to provide some way to guarantee that it won't be mutated while being treated as immutable! There doesn't seem to be a definitive best way to do that (although the likes of Pony make a try at it).
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Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency
The love child of Erlang and Rust exists already: Pony.
https://www.ponylang.io
It really is the best of both languages... unfortunately, the main supporter of Pony seems to have stopped using it in favour of Rust though :D.
But if that's really what you want, Pony is your language. It definitely deserves more love.
- Programming language rule
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Why Turborepo is migrating from Go to Rust – Vercel
You can actually try to have a magic language which "does not ignore decades of PL research" but you are likely to get either something broken or a project that is likely not going to release in our lifetime.
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Show HN: Ractor – a Rust-based actor framework with clusters and supervisors
Never a bad time to plug Pony lang[1] - a safety-oriented actor-model language. In addition to the numerous safety guarantees, you also get a beautiful syntax and automatic memory management. Really a great language that often gets overshadowed by Rust's hype-turfing.
[1]: https://www.ponylang.io/
What are some alternatives?
lean4 - Lean 4 programming language and theorem prover
gleam - ⭐️ A friendly language for building type-safe, scalable systems!
chapel - a Productive Parallel Programming Language
Halide - a language for fast, portable data-parallel computation
cicada - An old-school bash-like Unix shell written in Rust
prolog-to-minizinc - A Prolog-to-MiniZinc translator
c3c - Compiler for the C3 language
Phoenix - wxPython's Project Phoenix. A new implementation of wxPython, better, stronger, faster than he was before.
virgil - A fast and lightweight native programming language
tab-rs - The intuitive, config-driven terminal multiplexer designed for software & systems engineers
HVM - A massively parallel, optimal functional runtime in Rust
Nim - Nim is a statically typed compiled systems programming language. It combines successful concepts from mature languages like Python, Ada and Modula. Its design focuses on efficiency, expressiveness, and elegance (in that order of priority).